Do you have one? Do you need one? Have you ever even heard of such a thing?
Let me splain why you may need one. More and more states are making it legal to hunt with a suppressor (you probably call them silencers). So lets say you buy one... fill out all the ATF paperwork to own it legally and pay your 200 bucks for the stamp. Congrats. You're the legal owner of a suppressor.
Now... Lets say you're going to the range after work and you have your suppressed weapon in the trunk of your car. While you're at work your wife comes by because she needs your car for some reason. She grabs your keys and off she goes. You didn't think about the gun in the trunk.
Now lets say your wife gets in a wreck. Someone finds the silenced weapon in the trunk. Your wife is not the owner.
Your wife is going to jail. And you're likely going to jail with her. For a long... long... time.
If you had a gun trust... that wouldn't happen.
Gun trusts permit multiple trustees to use and possess the weapons in the trust legally. They also prevent additional transfer fees when you die and leave your weapons to your kids.
Another thing to consider is long term asset protection. Look... we all have a lot of money tied up in firearms. Its nice to know that no matter what happens... they are safe. Example... Your kid is a trustee. He gets a divorce and the psycho ex-wife is trying to get absolutely everything. Sorry. To bad. So sad. She can't touch the guns.
These things aren't expensive to set up. And the protection they provide is worth many times more than they cost.
Give it a look.
24 comments:
Good write up. Another thing to consider is that a corporate entity can own modern production (read new post 1986) class III weapons. Which means you can get that belt feed weapon you always wanted. You still have to pay the fees and taxes, but you can get the permits.
Hey, if you're serious about wanting the engraved grips, let me know, and I'll send you some pictures and a quote. I do bonded ivory scrimshaw, and I can do some other materials as well. Write me at mhardig at aol dot com.
OG... emailed!
Res the problem with corps is the fees and taxes associated with maintaining them. but yeah there are advantages to going that route too
I prefer the gun trust though.
Nate can a gun trust own new class III? IF it can than its basically prefect.
I know you can transfer class IIIs into it and I know you can build SBRs with it. Don't know if you can manufacture new machine guns
Also advantageous if you want a short-barreled something-or-other for home defense. If the wife or kids need to use it, their battle in court after the fact (if any) will be a lot less painful.
Nate, I don't watch SNL but I came across this and thought you'd appreciate it: Jebidiah Atkinson. The ending is to die for.
This post is full of great common sense Nate. In fact, if you have a way to get wider readership of this information, I would suggest you try it. If it saves one fellow or even a woman G.O. from losing his/her weaponry to some wretched and angry ex spouse, it would be worth the effort.
This post's advice I think, could apply to just about anything valuable that the owner wanted to protect from greedy swine in the azaleas of their lives.
I heard something about the govt was trying to close the "trust loophole" just recently.
Question on the divorce scenario. Say the psycho ex wife is not psycho at first. Wouldn't she be made a trustee in case one forgets a gun in the trunk? Seems like either they are not protected from the feds or he is not protected from her.
But all in all, I think a good idea.
I have a trust and so do my brothers.
You cannot manufacture new machine guns with a trust.
Re corporations owning post-1986 full-auto - approved security firms/employees, certain types of gov't contractors and FFL/Class III SOT holders can (with various rules and restrictions).
The John Smith Corporation so I can own post-ban machine guns Inc. - not so much. Which sucks.
Yours in Defiance,
toothy
(full disclosure - we're a FFL/Class III SOT holder)
Giraffe,
She would still be a trustee... but like all wives... her trusteeship would only last as long as she was married.
Thanks Toothy.
OK, what good would it do for a single guy with no children and two brothers in my shape. I can't see a reason.
And doesn't the stamp for a silencer give the FEDS the right to come in your house and inspect your guns anytime without probable cause or warrant?
Outlaw,
I don't know how many guns you have or what they are worth. But asset protection is important.
Mainly though this is for folks that do have silencers and short-barreled rifles and such. The kinds of things that are illegal for people to even hold.
Thanks, I don't have any of those things.
Whenever I can justify/afford that suppressed AR SBR in 300blk this is the route I'll go. Got other priorities for the foreseeable future.
ATF tonight?
You're right about the gun trust, but you make one thing backwards:
"They also prevent additional transfer fees when you die and leave your weapons to your kids."
Anything you personally own, not on a trust, will transfer on a form5 with no tax after you die to whoever inherits it. However if its in a trust it will have to transfer on a form4 with a tax when the trust pays out to its beneficiaries. So there are no transfer tax when you die if you personally own it, but there will be when it transfers from the trust. However the rest of what you wrote is correct and yes the trust is the way to go.
It's Friday.
The question isn't "do you have a trust", it's "do you have an ATF"?
"Anything you personally own, not on a trust, will transfer on a form5 with no tax after you die to whoever inherits it."
Actually according to my lawyer you only get one free tranfer when you die.
As for the trust... Why would you transfer them out of the trust? There is no reason to ever transfer them out of the trust. The kids become trustees and that's that.
That was my understanding how my trust works, too. The houses, cars, recreational vehicles, etc -- anything with a title on it that was deeded over to the trust stays there for our kids when we're gone. Only thing they'll have to pay taxes on is the income from the investment properties.
(Guns don't enter in to this scenario because they don't exist on paper.)
"Anything you personally own, not on a trust, will transfer on a form5 with no tax after you die to whoever inherits it."
Actually according to my lawyer you only get one free tranfer when you die.
As for the trust... Why would you transfer them out of the trust? There is no reason to ever transfer them out of the trust. The kids become trustees and that's that. "
When you die all NFA items can be form 5'd to whoever you leave it too. You don't get a second because the item is then theirs, and not your estates. When they die and pass it along it will also go via form5.
It is also against the law in most states to include Alabama to have a trust that is perpetual. It has to pay out.
Of course, IANAL.
Slowpoke: "It is also against the law in most states to include Alabama to have a trust that is perpetual."
This is very much true generally, though I'm not sure about Alabama specifically. This document breaks down the situation for some states as it existed at the time (2007), but I don't know if Alabama may have changed their law since then or not. And IANAL also.
I know that here in Colorado, "perpetual" only extends out to 1,000 years, and we are now in year 3. I don't think my children will have to worry much about it, unless the law changes in the meantime.
Gun trust permit is good but it is important that gun permit should be given only to those who know about gun safety rule and well handle the gun safely. I prefer to go for firearm safety course before handling any type of gun.
New twist for you.
ATF may have just screwed the pooch on the hughes amendment when it comes to trusts.
So, Nate, ready to file your form1 for a new MG?
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