Wednesday, April 24, 2013

How Not To Carry: Girl Edition


First let me say that however you're carrying... its better to have a firearm than to not have a firearm.  So if this is the only way you'll carry its better than nothing.  Its not the absolute worst way to carry.  That would be your purse.  Everyone knows that if you have a gun, its in your purse.  The Bad Guy goes for the purse quickly.

That said... this is not how you should be carrying girls.  The problem here is like a cross draw situation only worse.  Yeah these girls look like they can draw and shoot but pay attention.  One she's starting with her left hand on her shirt, so she's ready to pull it up.  Second... she's not taking an aimed shot.  She's literally firing from the hip.  She doesn't have a prayer of hitting anything more than a few feet away.  And that matters.

Because if she's close to the attacker... all he has to do is grab the wrist she just stuffed up her shirt and pin it to her body.  This is the standard defensive tactic we apply to cross draw guys and it will work just as well in this case.  Probably better because only chicks will be using these.  (Also note the kel-tec jammed in the first shot and the poor girl didn't even notice).

My point here is... you have to disregard these times.  They are not comparable to any realistic draw times you see.  Put both hands at her sides.  Put a purse on her shoulder.  Make her take an aimed shot at say 10 yards then lets see how she does.

Ladies... these are your options:

1) Inside your purse:  Probably the worst place to carry.  Its predictable.  Its slow.  But hey its easy.

2) Ankle holster:  Slow but less predictable.  Can be uncomfortable.

3) Flashbang: Better than in your purse or on your ankle.

4) Shoulder Rig: Comfy, easy to conceal, and less limited than the flashbang.  Still cross draw though.

5) In a pocket: Comfy but Slow.  Very limiting in what firearm you can carry.

6) On your hip:  This is where you SHOULD carry.  But none of you will.

7) Small of the back:  No.  No No. No.  Yes it looks cool in movies.  It will also snap your spine if you fall.

8) In your kid's backback:  No seriously I know a chick that does this.  Her kid walks around with a backpack and she has a firearm in it that she can grab and draw if something happens.  Cracks my ass up.  I don't think this needs debunking.  If this is your method...  ...  ok.

9)  Belly band:  Look... its like a corset with a gun!  Its slimming!  Seriously!  This is a great way to carry. I highly recommend.

Ok look I know how this works.  90% of you are going to read this and roll your eyes and say, "I'm carrying it in my purse."  That's fine.  Just do so knowing you're taking a chance.

57 comments:

thimscool said...

I'm carrying in my purse...

Nate said...

someone had to do it.

thimscool said...

Just thought I'd get it out of the way.

Vidad said...

What if I carry in my wife's bra?

Anonymous said...

"That said... this is not how you should be carrying girls."

Ha! Carrying girls is a whole other matter.

Lex Rex said...

I usually carry girls over my shoulder, fireman style.

Nate said...

These are my readers...

patrick kelly said...

As always, context, situational awareness, and maneuvering are important.

In tactical drills involving close or closing targets the first, sometimes even second shot call for from the hip or retention position point and shoot firing.

Carry something. Practice what you likely need to do with what you carry. If it sux, get something else and practice with that.

Find a range, likely private, which will allow you to do the above. Standing still in a weaver stance slowly aiming each shot will rarely apply in an adrenaline pumped real life self defense situation.

If you know someone who has actually been shot or shot at, shot back and survived, train with them, everyone else is BS.

My 2c worth.

WaterBoy said...

See, this is why women should wear burqas -- there's no shortage of places to carry concealed.

Vidad said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTv9AhCuSU4

kawaika said...

"What if I carry in my wife's bra?"

If you've seen Surviving Edged Weapons then you know those daggers will get you before you get the gun.

Lana said...

My husband wants me to get a S&W bodyguard 380 hip carry. We are shooting his buddy's gun like this next week. Is this one y'all would recommend?

Res Ipsa said...

Lana,

Answering your question requires more information. How familiar are you with guns? Is there a larger caliber weapon you are comfortable shooting and carrying? Do you have a good supply of 380 ammo, 500 to 1000 rounds to shoot up so you get real comfortable drawing and shooting this gun? What other guns have you tried?

Res Ipsa said...

A lot of “should I get this gun” depends on personal preference. As a rule the biggest most powerful, commonly available defensive round you can easily handle and conceal, is your best bet. Provided you get it in a gun that is 100% reliable. For me a gun must shoot 250 rounds of the ammo I’m going to use defensively, without a single failure of any type, before I consider the gun reliable. Keep in mind that that’s only 5 boxes of 50 rounds. You should shoot any gun that you are going to bet your life on a lot more than that.

Lana said...

I was raised shooting handguns on the farm at targets for fun and occasionally went hunting with a shotgun with my Dad, but at no point have I gotten to a comfort level of 500-1000 rounds with a single handgun. The closest I have come is around 500 rounds with my current 9mm. I think I have what you describe as a comfort level with shotguns, because I go hunting with my husband and we also sometimes shoot trap and targets. I don't know if that matters.

I am very happy shooting the 9mm, but it isn't something I'm comfortable carrying. It's just too bulky for everyday and although I have my gun at the house and several people are armed at my office, I'd like to carry myself if I can find something workable.

We can get the 380 ammo more easily than the 9mm anyway, which is why my husband suggested I try it out and see if I like it.

I shot several handguns when trying to figure out which one I wanted to use for the conceal carry course. One was a 45 revolver, the 9mm I currently have, and then a 22 revolver. I'm sorry about the names, they were all my Dad's guns and I don't know exactly what they were. We just practiced for several days with the 3 different handguns until I decided which one I liked best. Does that help?

jack said...

What about the purses designed from the getgo for carry? I mean the kind the lady can keep her hand inside or near the access? True, its a dead [no pun intended] give a way that a woman has a gun if her gun hand is hidden by her purse structure. But, hey, that might just keep some baddy from approaching. Were I bad it would keep me away.

Luke said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Luke said...

I knew a lady in Texas who carried in her purse. Her hand seemed to dangle casually in her open purse but it was actually on the grip of her pistol (holster custom-sewn into the center compartment of the purse). "Snatch my purse and guess what I still have." Fastest draw there is is the one where the gun is already in your hand.

Res Ipsa said...

"Does that help?"

Yes. If you can shoot a 9mm and it feels good, why not buy a smaller gun in 9mm? The 380 is a step down in power. There are so many good pocket size 9mms that I can't see buying a 380 if the size of the gun is the issue.

Carrying a gun is about doing what is comfortable for you. That said, you may have to use the gun and a bigger bullet is better.

Res Ipsa said...

Just saw the video. I notice they didn't show her target.

David of One said...

Hi Lana,

Your husband sounds like a wise fellow.

You've grown up around firearms throughout your life so what you are comfortable & accurate with is what matters most.

But there are some other important considerations besides bore size.

Check out the following link and make up your own mind.

For Self-defense .22 beats .45

There might be better .380s out there than the S&W ... I don't know. S&W makes good weapons.

Add in some Wolf ammo (which is usually a little "hotter"), practice, a spare clip and you should be good to go!

As I said, your husband is a wise fellow.

Cheers! Stay safe. Live long.

Dave

David of One said...

Oh!

Here's a bonus for everyone ...

http://www.wnd.com/2013/03/how-to-beat-the-gun-controllers/

Nate said...

Lana,... ignore David of One.

.22s are useless.

David of One said...

Lana,

Sure, do what Nate says ... don't make your own mind up and weigh the evidence.

Nate said...

well... not about everything. But ignore anyone that says a .22lr is an effective defensive choice.

It will do nothing but piss someone off.

Nate said...

The case is garbage David.

Nate said...

For stopping power nothing beats a big slow bullet.

David of One said...

Taking into account your previous statements Nate, you are then asserting that one of the standard issue weapons for the Israeli Mossad is useless despite their analysis based upon empirical evidence?

Just curious.

Even so, Lana is looking at a .380 which was cited in the study as #1 with the lowly .22 coming in #2.

You didn't even check out the link did you?

Nate said...

Yes. I did. I know that the .380 was first... which told me tons about how freaking retarded the argument was.

Its not like this is new David.

Nate said...

lets sum up this moron's argument shall we David?

1) It doesn't matter what you shoot him with... he'll probably stop after he's shot.

and

2) RECOIL!!!! OH NOES!!

This fuck is a firearms instructor?

So what he's saying is... "If you have never shot before and don't bother to train you may be better off with a .22 because you may be able to shoot the guy a bunch of times because it doesn't kick."

You think that's fucking compelling?

Here's a much better plan.

Get a real weapon.

Learn to shoot it.

Done.

Giraffe said...

A .22 is a bad choice. If it is what you have, use it. It's better than throwing rocks. Probably.

It's better than a .25 acp.

Nate said...

David... I'm sorry man I don't mean to stomp all over ya. I mean this sounds like a compelling case to some people I suppose... but its really awful.

Supression? Seriously? He uses it for supression?

In a defensive scenario there is no place for supression. Supression is trading ammo for time to allow for tactical maneuvers. What are you going to do keep him pinned behind a car till the cops arrive? You really want to still be shooting when the cops get there????

The Navy SEALS get .22s too. They are silenced rugers. They call them the Amphibian. Its so they can come up out of the water and kill someone from behind quickly and quietly. It has nothing to do with defense.

Lana said...

Res Ipsa, thank you. I appreciate your thoughts. I am certainly not proficient with a handgun in any setting other than a shooting range, but I did wish there were more options with the 9mm I currently like. The 380 just looks, well, dinky. It's also the reason I rejected the 22. My thinking was if I currently hit 46/50 head or heart shots, why change? However, the availability of the ammo is the concern at this point and the lack of knowledge of a better 9mm carry gun. Again, appreciate it!

Lana said...

David of One, I will check out the video with my wise husband and thank you also for your input. I plan to shoot a variety of handguns in the next few weeks and hopefully make a decision. Everything is appreciated.

Lana said...

As to the entire back and forth on stopping power, I'd prefer my carry gun to be my shotgun, but I don't think that's legal in Texas.

David of One said...

Lana is considering the purchase & use of the S&W Bodyguard 380 ... shown here:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category4_750001_750051_757892_-1_757752_757751_image

Based upon size & comfort of grip the .380 is a very capable round for self-defense. No wincing. Little recoil. And no prominent scare on the forehead wherein folk would rather just say they got drunk and fell in a ditch.

Due to the reduced cost of ammo, the average person can better afford to train properly and regularly.

It is an excellent choice for persons where weight, grip and recoil are important if hand & wrist strength average to nominal.

A well trained individual will have the advantage when they are at a size & strength disadvantage from an assailant. Training & skill count ... even at the OK Corral.

Now then let's talk about the .22 LR. The video article by Molotov Mitchell was entitled "For self-defense: .22 beats .45" and I entitled my link similarly as I was referencing Lana's question about the S&W Bodyguard 380.

No matter let's talk .22 LR nonetheless.

Being that the CIA, US Navy Seals, US Marines & Special Forces see fit to use them (albeit suppressed) ... it is directly indicative of their use and value. Even State-side, Tactical Operations are using suppressed .22 LR rifles.

Obviously there is a bit more to the use and utility of the round than that of the infernal comparison of dick size.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Standard_HDM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_MK_II

David of One said...

Your welcome Lana.

Ultimately you'll know what works best for you and I suspect that all of us here would agree with your choice of a shotgun.

Life is good and I count myself blessed to know this group of verbally dueling combatants.

joek said...

Thank you for No.7, even though I'm a male. I used to carry my Ruger P89 that way until I fell on my back one day. (thankfully w/o the pistol!) Have never carried that way since.

RTR!

David of One said...

Initial cost and the "reloading" cost of air ... this class of rifles might be a consideration for some. $600-$800.

Nowadays, even the smaller bore air guns are impressive.

.50 cal air rifles

http://www.pyramydair.com/article/_50_Caliber_Dragon_Slayer_Air_Rifle_December_2007/45

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t510504/

http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/bandit_1.html

Vidad said...

I want a motherfrickin' carry shotgun.

I almost made one from my breach-loader, but my wife was worried about felony charges and all that crap.

Dang... really looking forward to this week's show.

I want to discuss my plan to make silver buckshot cartridges for my carry shotgun in order to obliterate the were-bankers running our Evil Bankster Empire.

P.S. Someone please mail me a bottle of gin. Tax return still hasn't come in. Need liquor. God bless.

Res Ipsa said...

Lana,

You are welcome. Given the size of the 380 you are thinking about, try a Sig P938. It's small and easy to carry and it shots a 147grn 9mm hollow point. They are single action and easy to shoot. They come with extended mags if the flush mag is too small for your grip and they have good night sights. Yes they are more money but not that much more.

thimscool said...

I would not trust rimfire unless I had no choice. If I had no choice, I'd hope that it was CCI, and that the gun was recently cleaned.

Check out the M&P Shield... more like the 9mm you may be used to, but a single stack mag means that it is very thin, which is the most important dimension for hip carry.

If that's too big, consider the Beretta Nano or Ruger LCP.

I'm no expert, but the experts here can either verify or contradict this advice. I have shot enough 22 to know that while it is a good training tool, and may be the best choice for an assassin's weapon, it is not what you want for defensive carry.


thimscool said...

Vidad, how did you manage to give the government a loan? That's crazy.

Vidad said...

@thimscool

Actually, because I'm incorporated in a good state and operate my business at moderate income levels, (plus have a killer accountant) the IRS simply pays me every year to exist.

Not my loan to them - I pay them nothing. They're apparently bribing me with credits or something.

thimscool said...

Ah, well then... many happy returns!

I'm curious how your accountant pulled that off. Probably an agriculture thing, eh?



Vidad said...

"Probably an agriculture thing, eh"

Actually, no. My property was too small to get those gems. I have one million children, however, which helps. But beyond that, she also limited my wages through the corporation, put me on "commission," allowed the company to pay some of my expenses, wrote off trip mileage, etc. The great thing about being incorporated is that you only get taxed on actual profits - not gross income.

thimscool said...

Of that I'm well aware. I also own a biz. I just haven't found a way to lower my taxes into negative territory.

Maybe my third kid will do the trick, but I doubt it.

Leatherwing said...

Nate, do you change how you carry when you ride?

Nate said...

I don't. I carry the same way all the time. Holster on my hip. Well... there may also be a few hidden around the bike.

Nate said...

YesDavid. There are many great uses for .22 pistols. None of them however have anything to do with a defensive civilian ccw situation.

And what are we discussing?

Right. Ccw and defense for civilians.

You lost this debate at "supression".

farmer Tom said...

Nate, The holster on you hip, is it IWB?

Bought a FNH FNX .40 with some Christmas money. Just bought a IWB custom built holster two weeks ago. Not sure I like it, or I'm still getting acquainted with it.

I'm being serious here, be patient with this comment. I work around the farm all day,every day. And I carry a pair of pliers in a pliers pouch/holder hanging from my belt. It is amazing how often I can sweep my hand down and have those pliers in my hand with out ever consciously thinking about reaching for them.

I wish I could carry the gun the same way. Hanging from the belt on the right side, right where the thing is just naturally at hand when I want it. But instead I have to try to hide it, and that is a far less comfortable way to carry.

Nate said...

Thimscool

Only farms can go negative. Nothing else can.

Which is why I am a farmer

Res Ipsa said...

“I wish I could carry the gun the same way. Hanging from the belt on the right side, right where the thing is just naturally at hand when I want it. But instead I have to try to hide it, and that is a far less comfortable way to carry”

FT,

You are 100% correct. Open carry is always more comfortable and easier to get a gun into play. I carry 7 days a week for at least 8 hrs a day. It is always concealed. The holster is key to comfort and accessibility. I used to love leather, but over the years I’ve moved to more of the synthetic materials. I think its possible to buy a gun, get to know and love it and never buy another one. It’s not like that with holsters. With holsters you are always either breaking it in, wearing it out or looking for another one. Make mental notes on what you like and dislike and what you’d rather have different then start looking for the next holster. As a side note, for me it takes about six months (again 6 to 7 days a week of use) of using a holster to have it broken in and to make a final decision on keeping it, unless of course I decide I hate it sooner than that.

I hate to break it to you, but I’ve spent and wasted hundreds of dollars on holsters. I wish there was a better way to do it, but you’ve got to learn what works best for you. The only way to do that is to buy and try.

thimscool said...

I remember Bill schooling us on this stuff when you posted up that Shelby as being equal to your tax return and he said, "You're doing it wrong."

There's only so far I can go with my primary biz, as I'm a contractor so that we get 1099'd and there is nowhere to hide. That's one reason I decided to start land lording on the side.

Res Ipsa said...

FT,

What do you like and dislike about your current system?

f said...

Res,

I probably bought too large of a gun.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQTpM9LYomAmI-5BtVLhqGspy5_GJTl1wHfYtdBhV7BuIP-kW9whA

I like the way it shoots, probably more accurate than I'm capable of, I like having a hammer, cause I still love my old S & W revolver. This is smaller is size than that revolver, But,

It's still a standard size gun. So concealing it is not a simple task. The holster I had built is an IWB. So far I like the holster, I like the gun, but it just doesn't seem like I'm able to conceal it like I want to.

Working in the hog houses and other things I do, it is not possible to carry it all the time. So I carry when ever I go where there are other human beings, town, church etc.

And that may be part of the problem. Since I don't carry all the time, I'm just not comfortable with it yet.

BTW, I've been trying to lose some weight. Losing another 20lbs would probably help.

Res Ipsa said...

As someone who could lose a few too, the extra weight around the middle does make it harder. There are some things you can try. A tee shirt with suspenders and a belt for a base layer with a long sleeve shirt over top might work if you tuck in the tee shirt and leave the long shirt untucked. Another thing that might help is an adjustable cant holster that lets you push the grip of the gun forward to a more perpendicular position instead of carrying it parallel to the ground. Something else that helps is buying your pants a size bigger than your circumference at the bellybutton and wearing your belt around your belly button, if you combine this with a shirt that is one or two sizes too big, it is very hard to see the gun. I know, nobody likes to wear jeans that way, but it works.
Not to be too harsh, but the fact is that nobody is checking out us old fat guys that much. So you’re probably more aware of the fact you have a gun on than anybody around you; unless of course, the gun causes your pants to fall down. If that happens just say, “yo, yo, yo waz up nigga” and flash a gang sign and nobody will mess with you.
The best thing you can do is have it on all the time until you’re not thinking about it all the time. Getting in and out of the truck, bending, tossing feed bags, etc will test the limits of your carry rig. When you find a holster that lets you do all that, you’ll be very confident in your going to town activities.