A lot of people seem to be finally grasping that there real structural problems within the Republican Party.
What they are missing... is this isn't new.
Now think hard... back to your civics or poly sci or maybe even history classes. Do you remember a term they used to use; The Solid South? It was political jargon that referred to the way the South was just one giant block vote for the Democrats.
Not republicans.
Democrats.
In the grand scheme of things... the Republican Party has not been the socially conservative party. That would be the democrats. That would be the South. And that's why everything gets so uncomfortable when people like Ann Coulter start slamming the Democrat party for fighting against integration. The people she's slamming that were once democrats... are now republicans. So when she starts talking about how MLK was a republican... the older part of what is now the GOP base... knows she is criticizing them.
The Republican party has been a party of fiscal conservatism... at least when it suits them. But in reality that's not the party's historical forte'. That's just for headlines. The GOP was founded on the principles of a very strong central government. It was the anti-states-rights party. The Democrats were the party of States Rights
In the 50s as the radical left gained more and more power in the democratic party... the base shifted. Remember the Reagan Democrats? People always ask what politician can go bring those people back to the GOP. Umm... I have some bad news for ya guys. Those Reagan Democrats... aren't Democrats anymore.
They are the GOP base now. The South is still Solid. Its just solid Republican now.
So you have a giant disconnect between the power players in the GOP elite... and the base.
The base is made of the people who used to be the Democrat base in the 1950s.
The GOP leadership hates those people. I mean really hates those people.
So when you see Paul Boehner pull a compromise stunt like he pulled... remember... he didn't betray the base. He didn't betray the party.
The Party is for European style elitist strong central government. Big military. Big Business. Big Banks. Fiscal responsibility if it means tax cuts for them or their friends.... and that's the only time.
That's the real GOP.
Stop being mad at them for being exactly what they have always been.
There is no conservative party in the US right now. There is no nationalist party.
Its time to stop pretending the GOP is either.
Its time to create the American Nationalist Party.
35 comments:
So, how does one go about doing it? It has been tried and failed enough times we know it's not a particularly easy task.
To the Foundry!
I've done it before. Its largely pointless to even try without a big name established politician as a point man.
So we'd need a Trump. Or a Ted Cruz.
I'm drawing a blank on big names we could entice that we would want to see as President.
Any real conservative could pull the base out from under the GOP and make it the new Right Wing Party.
Cruz.. Huckabee... Rand... Any of them could do it.
Count me in
You'd probably need multiple ones to avoid to "cook" label like they did to Ron Paul
Huckabee and Rand Paul? Don't agree about them being able to do that. Maybe in the South, but not nationwide.
Most people who are supporting Trump, have Cruz as their alternate from everything I have been reading.
This is a great post Nate. The GOPE might be a party, but it is an empty shell that doesn't realize that the guts of it have already jumped ship. Many out there hope that next November will finally knock that empty shell over and turn it into dust.
No, You Lie Ryan didn't betray the party. Since the party is now considered by lots of folks to be establishment. Problem is, getting people to understand that difference. There are still a lot of folks out there who are still unclear in their own minds exactly what is going on here.
I think Cruz could do it. Not this year, but if he spends the next 4 years working it, I think he'll be able to pull it off.
The south is the center is sanity in the us. Don't know that the crazy Yankees want to be governed justly
The south is the center of sanity in the usa. I can't see Yankees going along with sane government since they have no moral foundation....is what I meant
A new party is a bad idea, taking over the Republican party is a better idea.
meh. It needs to die. Its time for it to die. We can name the new party Republican if you want.
Wouldn't it be better to take over the existing party with their ready-made war chest, than to start a new one from scratch with no assets?
It would be better to take over an existing party, but frankly, we've tried that and failed as many times as we've tried to start a new party and failed. We need some good ideas about how to go about it differently if we want it to work.
A national political figure like Cruz, who has built a grass roots organization in key states for the presidential race can use that organization to build a party. It may require picking one state to show the others it can be done effectively to take over state govt, then roll out the model nationwide.
Nah, the problem is that we're (Conservatives) too fractured, and we just refuse to play nice together. The Left has a few litmus test positions (abortion, gay "rights"), and we have; pro-life, pro 2nd, anti-immigration, limited government, low taxes, free market, property rights, religious freedom, anti-welfare. And those are just a few off the top of my head that conservatives coalesce around. Any Lefty that signals the right way on abortion gets votes. Any conservative that's not conservative enough on a few of the things listed above, even if they're fantastic on a few other things, just has a hard time getting elected.
Bill.
That's not a bug. Its a feature. The problem is we've let to many of those piece of shit liberals in the party.
They don't bring votes. They cost votes.
They get elected... and they drive conservative people out of the party. Every Single Time the Republicans run an actual conservative... or even someone everyone BELIEVES is a conservative... they win.
Every. Time.
IMO the social mood is going to get to the point real soon where people would support a conservative , at least southerners and rural folks.
meant true conservative party...tring to type too fast cause i am at work
I did the Republican thing. I watched it start bad and get worse. Sure, there are some ups and downs, but the trajectory is down. I have no interest in having anything else to do with it. We need a true conservative party. Even better, we need regional parties. While we are at it, let's just go ahead and secede and have true regional governance.
If that is not yet ready to happen, then at least give me someone to vote for that I can stomach. I will most likely either sit it out or vote Constitution party this time around.
I will most likely either sit it out or vote Constitution party this time around.
-Clint
See, that's what I'm talking about. You get people like Clint involved and things just go to hell. I get that you don't like the pantsuit look, so you're gonna vote for the anti-freedom Constitution party instead of just voting Dem, but a REAL protest vote would be for Trump.
It amuses me greatly to see comments from people who want border security, deportation of illegals, immigration halted from the ME, and some common sense approaches to our economy and social policies.
But when a candidate actually not only supports those ideas, but blows the establishment politicians game out of the water, they not only point and shriek EWWW at that candidate, they threaten to take all their toys and go home if some obscure third party isn't enacted to their specifications.
Trump isn't a conservative, sure. He has never claimed to be. What he has said repeatedly is that he loves his country, he is appalled by what democrats and Obama are leaving for his children to deal with.
He is also the only candidate ever to self fund, so he will owe NOBODY. He is his own man, he is trying to play by the political rules of running as a republican.
But, if they do try fraud during the primaries coming up, he will have the option of then running third party. There are enough supporters out there that I believe would gladly stick a stake through the heart of the GOPE and finally kill it.
eh, fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
I have voted for Repukes. Never had a good one elected. Will Trump be better? Maybe. He won't be worse.
That does not mean that if I don't want Hitlery to be elected I have to vote for him. He sucks too.
Well, Clint, I didn't realize you were a Big Government guy. I have some really serious problems with the Constitution Party's platform. In fact, they are exactly the problem. As I was griping about above, they have a few things they're really strong on, and then some things that they're TERRIBLE on. I would never vote for them, since I'm more of a pro-freedom kind of guy.
Look, this "lesser of two evils" thing is pretty simple. No third party candidate is going to get elected President. Period. If Ross Perot can't even pull 20% of the vote given the climate of the day, nobody can make it as a third party candidate. What you're doing is encouraging the fracturing of the conservative vote. You are not "voting your conscience", you're banging your spoon on your high chair. The approach of the NRA, and Right to Life, is the best approach. Look at their scorecards, and vote from that. They don't endorse fringe candidates, they endorse candidates that can win, and have the best shot at advancing the group's agenda. Getting one guy elected President is not gonna matter. You need to get congress, and you need to get the Presidency term after term. You need a deep bench, and you need an enormous ground game and an enormous, nation-wide, fundraising mechanism, and you need tens of thousands of get-out-the-vote volunteers. Every single one of these third party things is just a cult of personality for someone with One Good Idea - they are not serious political entities.
Here's how to think of it: Don't vote for parties. Vote for specific candidates, especially for local things like school boards, and really especially in primaries - which are the actual election. But once the primaries are over, it's pretty much just show up and vote Republican in September. That's the winning strategy.
Bill, you're either blind, stupid, or lying. Your strategy is what gets us liberals like McCain, Romney, and Jeb running as Republicans. because "electability". Except they ain't electable and even if they were, they are well left of center. No thanks. You big govt, gope types can suck it up and vote for conservatives for a change or just go away. Go to hell or the DNC. We don't care.
Yeah Bill, that has worked very well. We got Bush, Bush, Dole, Bush, Bush, McCain, Romney...no thanks. I do not see much improvement of those fellas over the Dems.
Honestly, I do not "vote my conscience." If I like the guy from the Constitution party (or whatever party), then I'll vote for him. If not, then I won't.
I am about as small government as a fellow can be, short of being an anarchist. Explain to me again how electing a Repuke is making government smaller? Who was the last president that actually worked to make government smaller? Do you really think any of these jokers lined up now will? No way.
Your strategy is what gets us liberals like McCain, Romney, and Jeb running as Republicans.
Ok, maybe you have a point. I mean, just look at how successful the Libertarian party has been. Or the Constitution party. Really, the Constitution party got on the ballot in over half the states! What a game-changer! The Constitution party got more votes than people that live in Murfreesboro!
But, no surprise here, I see you guys can't follow an argument. Listen up, I'll type slowly so you can follow along: The actual election is the primary - not the main election. After the primary, just show up and pull the lever next to "R", and then carefully vote all the down-ticket candidates.
All the bozos that showed up and voted for Rick Santorum, Michele Bachmann, et al, handed the race to Romney, and then when these folks didn't show up to vote at all in the general election (check the numbers on that one!) we got stuck with the Current Occupant. (and, by the way, I still think Romney would have been a more conservative president than Bush) Heck, even Ron Paul was a un-electable fringe candidate by that point, once the old newsletters surfaced.
So, Clint, if you're a small government guy, why on earth would you support the Constitution party? They spend way too much time talking about morality and drug abuse for me to be comfortable around them. Those guys are the seeds of another Prohibition and War on Drugs®.
Oh, and I just noticed that I mentioned September, that's when early voting starts in Maryland, but obviously the official date for the election is still the 2nd week in November.
The train is fine.
Sure,Bill, just keep on voting for whoever the GOPE throws up. Why, you might get control of the House, Senate, and the Executive... then you'll REALLY get things done. Just like 2004. Oh, wait...
Who are we to believe? Bill? Or our lying eyes?
Oh well, looks like Bill will have to hold his nose and vote for a conservative or he won't have an establishment to cheerlead for any longer.
Stilicho, sorry but your IQ must be this high for this ride.
http://i.imgur.com/wokOX.jpg
See, I can point to any number of elections won by the Republican machine, almost regardless of who the candidate was (Arlen Specter, really?). How many elections has the Constitution party won? According to Wiki "There are currently no elected officials of the Constitution Party in any state-level positions.". How about the Libertarian party? The Libertarians are actually a national party, they have enough infrastructure to get people on ballots and all that, yet.... "Though the party has never won a seat in the United States Congress..."
So, yeah, tell me again how we're going to change the world by going third party?
I would be much happier to see a new party arise out of the ashes of the Republicans. There are still some good folks in there, just not many who are seeking office. Certainly, the political machine behind the curtain is corrupt and abysmal.
I have not true tie to the Constitution Party. I would be happy to find something better; like Bill, I am not a fan of several of their platform planks. On the whole, they are better than the Repukes, as they now exist, though.
Do they win? Nope. Then again, there was a time when the Whigs were pretty prominent, before a little third party, known as the Republicans blew t hem out of the water. In addition, there was a seismic shift more recently, when the Dixiecrats abandoned the Democrats, eventually aligning, for the most part, with the Republicans.
It does not have to be a cut and dried thing. It just find it silly to think that simple electing republicans is the answer. It is not even really an improvement over the Democrats. Sure, we got Obamacare from the Dems, but we got the Patriot Act from the Reps. They are both fatally flawed.
The Republican party is not a thing, it's just a bunch of individual people. Most of whom are Republican like Cowboys fans are Cowboys fans. All of them, as far as I can tell, at the local level especially, agree with the general sentiments of small government, and are to a man pro-life, at least everyone I've met, which is a few hundred.
Certainly, the political machine behind the curtain is corrupt and abysmal.
THIS.
Yup, at the national level, things are very different. This is why a Trump presidency would rock the house. A good chunk of these upper echelon folks would, hopefully, be out of a job. Replacing the Republican leadership is a tall order. These guys are well-funded, well-connected, and know how the system works. The original plan was to get true conservatives elected as dog catcher and the like, and organically grow a conservative Republican party the same way the libs grew a liberal Republican party. But many people think a Trump presidency could greatly accelerate things.
Try again, Billbo. I never claimed a third party is the answer, I simply pointed out the fact that you are a moron for claiming your strategy is the answer when it has already failed. Reading comprehension. Try it someday. Now get back to your GOPE cheerleading.
The muddy middle of the old Narrative was tailor made for insiders using the central government to rob others blind.
Until the muddy middle fragments enough to undermine the GOP nothing will change.
First comes the underlying shift to divisive political philosophy (which appears well under way), then comes new leadership and visible political upheaval.
The tough times baked into the cake by decades of monetary, economic and social policy knavery will be fertile ground for political upheaval.
While such times are inevitable, it remains to be seen exactly when they'll arrive. I'd have sworn they were imminent 20 years ago.
Until then, however, it's unlikely there will be significant change. Political reform is an oxymoron.
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