The world is full of interesting firearms. Some of them you find yourself examining and wondering just what purpose its supposed to serve. I get that alot with my SU-16c. Another kel-tec that gets that kind of attention is the Sub-2000.
Now... no question its ugly. Also... there is no question that there is a cool factor to it as well. But what's it for?
Something that I think is over looked in these pistol cartridge carbines is the fact that the 16-inch barrel cranks the velocity up significantly. For example if you have a sub-2000 in .40... the impact down range is not like the .40 out of your little glock. How much faster is it?
Its raining and crappy so I'm not pulling out the chrony but the charts say 135 grains bullet rolling out at 1635 fps. To put that in perspective... that is superior to the .357 magnum. Its even superior to the mighty 10mm. So not only is it going to be significantly more accurate than the same shot fired from a pistol, it will also hit far harder. And if you're shooting your carbine in 9mm, it cranks it up to .357 levels of power. And that's a big jump.
So it hits a lot harder than your standard sidearm in that same caliber... but its not much bigger than a pistol when it comes to sticking in a backpack, or under the seat in your truck. It also makes for a nice little kit gun. Get a pelican case... fold it up and stick it in there with a couple GMRS radios, a GPS, a good knife, a couple mags, and a pistol that uses the same mags as the carbine. Maybe a flashlight and some spare batteries... you've got a badass little go bag that wouldn't take up much room at all but would provide some serious functionality.
I prefer the SU-16 for my truck gun. I have a little more space available and I prefer the 223 and the AR mags. But in a survival situation.. a backwoods situation... or any time when space and weight are at a premium... i just don't see how you beat something like the Sub2000. Throw a strap and a flashlight on it and it makes a very nice little patrol carbine as well. Its fast, its really light, and you're going to have just about anyone you come up against outgunned. Remember... It may be a pistol caliber.. but it isn't hitting that way. Would I grab it over the SU-16 for a patrol? Well I suppose it would depend on how far I was walkin'.
And boy... a suppressor on one of these would sure be hell on some coyotes.
The down side is if you do pick up a Sub2000, be prepared to spend some time tuning it. People make all kinds of things out of these little weapons. Lots of folks hate the front sight and change it pretty quickly. I find the front sight isn't that bad if you take a little time to set it up... and a small flashlight mounted under it really helps that front sight a ton. I wouldn't put a red dot on it. That would prevent you from folding it up, and folding it up is one of the coolest things about it.
Do you recommend 9 or 40? Thought it would be more expensive... MSRP of 409 isn't bad.
Also sent you an email about an old motorcycle for sale. Could I get your opinion?
Its raining and crappy so I'm not pulling out the chrony but the charts say 135 grains bullet rolling out at 1635 fps. To put that in perspective... that is superior to the .357 magnum.
You are correct, My 357 rolls the chronograph at 1311 ft/sec with 140 grain bullet 3" barrel
And that's loaded with 17.5 gr of Win 296, or 0.5 gr over max load in the books.
I always feel a little better about my unverified ballistical statements after one of you boys confirms it.
Speakin' of books.. Which load data book do you favor Outlaw?
Nate, for information, Speer wins the day. But for Bullets, Hornady wins the day. So I keep both. The rest are just part of the library. If I could only have one it would be Speer and use the internet to see the latest Hornady tech.
This is my favorite.
Nate I put it on my blog.
Nate, It' funny my brother called me a few minutes ago and I asked him what his favorite reloading book was, In order he put Nosler, Hornady then Speer. I said the other two don't have the charts and equations. He said I want to know which gives the most accurate load to reality and he said Nosler. So take it as you will.
Hell Outlaw... we all have all three.. and we probably all check all three anyway.
I even have Lee's modern reloading book
The reason he called me is the sheriff department just delivered my stolen motorcycle back to him as I instructed, now I hope the bastards go to jail, they would not have delivered it until the investigation was over.
Yeah I got the library as well, but people need to know what is their best first purchase. I used Speer of old for my ballistic program. most people don't want all the information they just want to know if I put this much powder in this cartridge with this bullet what is the muzzle velocity an pressure.
Hey black I didn't get that email. resend it.
Yeah Outlaw.. speer is the first one I grab too.
I primarily use data from powder companies. They all give a free booklet, and they all have free pdf's on their website.
I also love Hodgdon's annual manual. It is about 8 bucks, and has some articles in it and tons of data for IMR, Win, and Hodgdon. Of course, all of that data is free on their website, but it's handy to have a hard copy.
I even have Lee's modern reloading book
I kinds like that one too but mine is the first edition so it's sorta out of date.
I also have a book called Metallic Cartridge Reloading. That one is pretty good too. The problem is powders get discontinued and new ones come out all the time.
The ting you do when you are reloading if you want max. I try the max load in the books, as they are conservative and go up a few tenths of a grain at a time. All you really need to know is when you look at the primer.
1) Rounded with a dent under max
2) Flat with a dent about max.
3 Crater with a flat primer and a raised ring around the dent - overload - too much pressure and dangerous.
Also temperature. Max for a 44 mag 24.5 gr of Win 296 (my favorite large pistol powder), 240 gr bullet at temp below 90 F. Above 90 F Max is 24.0 gr Win 296 with a 240 gr bullet.
good stuff Outlaw.
My .45 carbine 16" barrel doesn't get any more fps with regular 230g, but it will handle some 165g +p+ loads pushing them near 1400fps and 600flbs. Unfortunately I have a hard time finding the rounds and powder for these loads, and commercial stuff is way too expensive.
So, for now, just plinking with the 230g. It is fun plinking.
Wonder if a TN resident can buy one in Colorado (is it classified as a long gun). I want one, and will be here for a while.
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